tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12994453.post113914877372761533..comments2023-10-26T05:48:22.755-04:00Comments on Orwell's Grave: Muslim Reaction to the CartoonsStephen McArthurhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10481957427291198042noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12994453.post-1139556971174692662006-02-10T02:36:00.000-05:002006-02-10T02:36:00.000-05:00I do think we have to defend freedom of speech and...I do think we have to defend freedom of speech and condemn violence as our primary priorities. However, I also want to point out two things which I haven't seen stressed much in the press:<BR/><BR/>1) If you pay attention to the original purpose and context of the publication of those cartoons, it was with the intent to push buttons. The protests can be understood better as a response to the "f--- you" intent of the original publication rather than to the bare fact of their being forbidden images. It's like road rage. Completely out of proportion, but based on an accurate and instinctive understanding of the other party's motives. <BR/><BR/>2) An attempt could be made to distinguish between forms of protest that we in the West are supposed to consider valid (boycott, peaceful assembly) and violence. Why not make a point of defending the freedom of speech of peaceful protestors too?nightquillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18416201101480083984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12994453.post-1139355998037754842006-02-07T18:46:00.000-05:002006-02-07T18:46:00.000-05:00Surfing around the blogosphere, I found a blog tha...Surfing around the blogosphere, I found a blog that is topic worthy:<BR/>http://face-of-muhammed.blogspot.com/.<BR/><BR/>Read his entry called 'Please leave.' How do you all feel about that?J.D. Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05744440229248391732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12994453.post-1139327701772612702006-02-07T10:55:00.000-05:002006-02-07T10:55:00.000-05:00"millions of unemployed, underemployed, uneducated..."millions of unemployed, underemployed, uneducated, and undereducated males in religious societies which define the male's hegemony as complete and unchallenged."<BR/><BR/>Sounds like you could be talking about parts of the Bible Belt, too...<BR/><BR/>As one who is a hardcore secular humanist, I find this all so very disturbing. In a perfect world, we would take the gloves off in regards to religious belief dictating public policy. Wanna pass a law based on some sort of religious belief as opposed to evidence? Prove it.<BR/><BR/> Whether it be because of politcal correctness or the deeply ingrained human religious impulse, we seem to give wide latitude to letting irrational superstitious beliefs(usually involving the Big 3 religions) a pass when it comes to calling them out on it, yet if we tried to pass a law based on informaton derived from astrology or reading goat entrails, there's no way it would fly. I don't see a difference here. I know my viewpoint is a minority one. I know, it sounds like I'm calling for another 'culture war'. We already have too many of those, unfortunately.<BR/><BR/> We can go on and on about respecting one's culture, not understanding the Muslim world, etc, but what if that culture is so obviously wrong, such as fundamentalist culture is? Where do we draw the line between respect and calling out idiocy when we see it?<BR/><BR/>As I understand it, Muslims in Europe are feeling the frustrations that they cannot practice all of their traditions while living in Europe (esp. regading women and such). Tough shit. If it's that big of a deal, they should reconsider whether they should want to live there in the first place. Europe should be moving forward, not backwards(us Americans are doing a fine job of going backwards).<BR/><BR/>Lest anyone accuse me of being hopelessly intolerant, this is not Muslim exclusive. I feel the same whether they be Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, whatever. It just sounds harsh because I am sick and tired of the irrational ruining it for the rest of us.J.D. Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05744440229248391732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12994453.post-1139259444861665542006-02-06T15:57:00.000-05:002006-02-06T15:57:00.000-05:00It is a terrible situation concerning the violent ...It is a terrible situation concerning the violent reaction of Muslims to the cartoons depicting Mohammed.<BR/>It illustrates there is a tremendous gulf of misunderstanding between our cultures, and I would say that is true around the world.<BR/>I don't condone or support the rioting and I support our freedoms of expression but I am reminded of an old poem I learned years ago while learning to drive.<BR/>"Here is the grave of Mike O'Day.<BR/> He died defending his right of way.<BR/> His right was clear, his will was strong<BR/> But he's just as dead as if he was wrong!"<BR/>The word is, use a little caution when dealing with these societies.<BR/>We cannot force them into the 21st century and is "democracy" really the answer in these nations at this juncture? If democracy is the answer, what is the question?<BR/>I guess if I had an answer I would contact the state department immediately!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00171698830330411135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12994453.post-1139255571655325012006-02-06T14:52:00.000-05:002006-02-06T14:52:00.000-05:00Kvatch -- I think you and I are saying the same th...Kvatch -- I think you and I are saying the same thing except in different ways. My inference is that while the Bush Administration talks about its democratization in Iraq, for instance, it knows that democratization is window dressing for its real purposes which are related to oil, strategic positioning, and anti-Islamic activities.Stephen McArthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481957427291198042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12994453.post-1139255041236755192006-02-06T14:44:00.000-05:002006-02-06T14:44:00.000-05:00Fundamentalist Islam is framing this battle with t...<I>Fundamentalist Islam is framing this battle with the West and, so far, winning. For all the protestations of George Bush to the contrary, our interventions, our "freedom," our democracy, our cartoons -- these are daggers to the heart of fundamentalist Islam.</I><BR/><BR/>Stephen, that was an excellent post, but on this last point I have to disagree, or at least point out that it's not quite complete.<BR/><BR/>Islam is framing this battle with the willing assistance of governments in the West. I don't for a second believe that Bu$hCo doesn't have depiction and encouragement of the radical Islamist in mind when it formulates policy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10288502219886210026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12994453.post-1139239212222208612006-02-06T10:20:00.000-05:002006-02-06T10:20:00.000-05:00What's disturbing to me is the number of people in...What's disturbing to me is the number of people in the liberal blogosphere who seem to be engaging in moral equivalency for the rioters. <BR/><BR/>On this topic, I won't budge. In democratic societies, we will allow free speech, and religious sensibilities be damned.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.com